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July 05, 2008

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Celeste

Thank the gods! It's about time someone came forward with this. I may disagree on a few things, on the whole I think you have made a damn good point.
I am vegan, and although I do not eat meat I would rather see people live "with the land" and kill the animals themselves instead of relying on factory farms. That and the whole pro-life thing. I am pro-choice, but I would definately cap it at two, maybe three. I firmly believe you should use it if you need it, not as a form of birth control.
Illegal immigrants? Let em earn their keep. Mandatory two or three years in Iraq (or serving THIS country wherever we happen to be at the time) and then, and ONLY then should they get their rights to be here and live just like the rest of us. No special programs, no signs and shit in Spanish (this is fucking America people, speak English!), just come here and work like the rest of us. I'm sorry, my grandparents came here straight off the boat from Poland and didn't speak a word of English. They were smuggled out of a concentration camp, and they endured a lot more hardships than these illegals, and they learned it. So should everyone else.
I would like to touch on another subject you did not mention: spanking kids. I believe that if they deliberately did something maligned, let them choose their switch. Let them be punished for the things they deliberately did wrong, and be guided with mistakes they make. They need to know that there are consequences for your actions. Sorry to burst your bubble, folks, but ancient pagans weren't all sunshine and roses, sweetness and light mommies and daddies. They were practical, and, at times, blood-thirsty killers. Ever heard of the Roman gladiator games? That was death and bloodshed, people. For entertainment. Nothing else. I dont know about you, but that doesnt exactly qualify as sweetness and candy puffs in my book.
Back on topic, thank you again for posting this. It's about damn time someone did!

Gothiccan

Well done, Amhranai. Perhaps one of the most frustrating things to me as a Wiccan is the extent to which persons with conservative values are snubbed in the overall community. For all of our talk about inclusion and diversity, there exists a very real exclusion of persons who dare think outside of politically correct dogma. Mainstream Wicca and the radical political left have become one and the same, and that is very unfortunate.

Many have noted the degree to which some will go to misrepresent conservative values. Political opponents have been exceptionally successful in painting conservatism as a backwards fascist movement which serves only the greedy elite. And of course, all racists, sexists, and other '-ists' exist only on the right, according to our enlightened utopian friends. I see it as a tragedy in that I have, over the course of two decades, found it to be precisely the opposite. Every descriptive previously noted is not only contrary to the principles I have found evident in conservatism, but they tend to be punctuated elements of the political left.

I have come to see conservatism as a bastion of tried and tested wisdom. Rather than jump head-first into the new and unknown in pursuit of that unachievable utopian ideal (we tend to leave the monolith of human nature out of the equation), conservatives tend to prefer to judge the new radical idea over time, in accordance with the things we know are stable and workable. This sort of wisdom based approach seems that it should be a natural fit with Wicca, were it not for the radical politicization of the religion.

In any case, it is good to hear from another conservative pagan out there. We seem to be a small and very much neglected (or, more appropriately, shunned) group. Keep to your principles, sister (and fellow Texan), it sounds like you are very much on the right track, despite what the Wiccan mobs may say to the contrary. For real Wiccan men, a conservative minded woman is a blessing and a treasure. I wish you and your Husband the best in all things.

Blessed be.

(P.S. For some insight into the liberal pinnings developed early on in the craft, perhaps you should read The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistoy (Cynthia Eller) and Goddess Unmasked (Phillip G. Davis). Both tend to infuriate the liberal pagans, but should be required reading for the truth-seeking Wiccan who desires to understand the radical undertones within our group.

Hunter Moon

I agree that consensual sex involves a choice by both partners, however, I wonder how you see a choice being involved in cases of non-consensual sex (non-consensual by the female, of course, in this case). Simply taking the Reagan cop-out of an exception in cases of rape and incest (incest being not automatically non-consensual anyway) is not an answer because your position that the baby is still a life in the womb would hold regardless of how the baby were conceived.

With regard to eating animals, your view of the situation is a bit shallow. Some people don't want to kill fluffy little animals for food. Some people don't want animals tortured in factory farms because they can see in the animal another life also deserving of freedom. Some people object to eating meat because 16 lbs of grain and soy (otherwise perfectly edible by human beings) is used to produce every 1 lb of meat. This is incredibly wasteful when you consider the fact that more than 25,000 people a day starve to death around the world.

I don't grasp your connection between the Iraq war and illegal immigration. The only possible connection I see is the rhetorical one that the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq and a bunch of Mexicans have illegally "invaded" the U.S. Although I am against illegal immigration, I believe that the idea that illegals suck up welfare without contribution is a myth. Look around and see if all those tomato pickers, and loggers, and busboys, and landscapers, and meat packers are sucking up social services or if they are working. If you look closely enough, you will also see that they pay tax withholding and social security withholding even though they will never be able to receive social security benefits or a tax refund.

Hunter

C. Copeland

"No special programs, no signs and shit in Spanish (this is fucking America people, speak English!)"

What about the descendents of Mexican people who were living in states like Arizona, New Mexico and California when the United States took those areas with brute force (causing extreme harm)? Should they be forced to speak English- even though the treaty that ceded the lands they live on guaranteed their right to their original tongue and culture?

For that matter, what of the hundreds of Native American tribes?

Oath-breaking and imperialism are antithetical to Wiccan values. Period.

Kyle Weiss

Solid piece.

I have to defend myself all the time in the same manner, not because of spiritual beliefs, but because I'm gay!

I swear, if one more person pigeonholes a tiny aspect of my life to fit some hair-dressing fruitcake liberal ideal of theirs I'm going to pee gasoline and vomit fire.

My spiritual beliefs have been my own. I share common points with a lot of people, Wiccans included. Some of my best friends are Wiccan and I love their beliefs, mostly because they tend not to be nearly as hypocritical as other major religions and doctrines.

Because of that I've realized the namesakes and shoeboxes people are unfairly put in lead to a LACK of individuality, culture and freedom.

I imagine all of the world I would have missed had I blindly followed someone else's control.

I found almost zero fault and agree with 95% of what you said in your article, and applaud you for facing possible backlash from ironic people who pride themselves on lack of judgement.

Thanks for being a fellow free thinker... keep the path bright.

KW

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